#159 Another Look at the Psychology Behind Changing Your Mind

// We’ve talked this month about the fact that change challenges us. As part of this theme, I had a conversation with Dr. Espen Klausen last week about the psychology behind how people change.

In that conversation, Dr. Klausen, Ph.D. described some of the differences between assimilation, which he says is bringing new ideas into old schemas, and accommodation, which he says involves significant paradigm shifts.

This week, Rosanne Moore is on the show to help me dive deeper into the concepts of assimilation and accommodation and how they can help us embrace change.

In this episode, we discuss some practical examples of assimilation and accommodation, how to know if you need to make a major paradigm shift or if the situation really calls for smaller changes, why it’s crucial for leaders to focus on personal growth if want those around us to do the same, what leaders can do to promote a healthy growth environment, the importance of taking care of your physical and mental well-being if you want to grow and change, the value of incorporating reflection in the process of changing something, how leaders can know if the resistance to their suggested changes is just a natural resistance to change or if it’s an indication of a deeper issue that needs to be addressed, and more.

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Transcript

Hey there!  It’s Andrea, and welcome to the Voice of Influence podcast.  Rosanne is with me today, and we are going to take another look at my interview with Espen Klausen, “The Psychology Behind How People Change”.

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Andrea:  Rosanne, good to have you here again today.

Rosanne Moore:  It’s always good to be here, Andrea.  We’ve talked this month about the fact that change challenges us.  And at least to some degree, it’s physically and mentally taxing.  And because of that, having expertise, having solid information, and having great solutions may not be enough to gain a hearing with most people.  Last week, you had a conversation with Dr. Espen Klausen about “The Psychology Behind How People Change,” and he described some of the differences between assimilation – which he talked about is bringing new ideas into old schemas – and accommodation – which involves significant paradigm shifts.

So, what do you see as some practical examples of assimilation and accommodation?

Andrea:  The way I see assimilation is really just like tweaking things.  It’s tweaking a process, whereas accommodation would be totally replacing that process.  Maybe even not replacing it with a process, but be replacing it with a whole new strategy, perhaps.  So, for example, if you are taking this in the business context with a team, maybe you’ve got a sales team or a marketing team and you’ve got a marketing process, a process for marketing…  so, this is one of the things that I’ve helped a client with.  So, we’ve got this process for marketing, and we want to do a better job of reaching people, but we don’t just want to do a better job of reaching people.  We’re wanting to do a better job of building relationships with people.  And instead of just trying to make a sale – as Espen put it – we’re trying to create a customer.  We want somebody who’s going to stick around and who develops a relationship with us and spends time, you know, and their energy, and they trust us, and we trust them, and we work together as an advisor for them.

So, in this case, then, going from a mindset and a process of marketing – how are we going to market, where are we going to market, what events should we have and that sort of thing – going from that to saying, “Well, what about people?  How are we going to turn this into maybe a business development strategy?  We’re not just marketing.  We’re going to build relationships.  How are we going to do that?”  We need to look at how we’re working together.  We need to look at our voice with our customers.  We need to look at what we really care about, our values, and create a value system that is very clear that we can, you know, kind of build our relationships on.  And so, in that case, we’re really talking about a huge shift.  It’s a shift in strategy, not just a shift in a process.

Rosanne Moore:  That makes sense.  Let me ask this.  Is accommodation always the goal?  Are there some guidelines for considering when a major paradigm shift is needed versus when it’s better to focus on small increments?

Andrea:  So, especially in the business context, we go back to – and it would apply to a personal situation as well – “What is the problem that I’m facing?”  Because this is essentially talking about solving problems.  Why do we change?  Because there’s something wrong or there’s something that’s not good enough.  So, how big is this problem?  Is it worth investing more time, more energy?  Is it something that we’ve maybe done?  You know, over the years, we’ve said we really want to make this shift, and we’re trying to, you know, tweak our processes so that it changes.  But things are just not actually making a change.

So, if you’re not actually able to make a sustained change and it’s actually costing something, it’s worth it to invest maybe emotionally and financially, in energy, to get everybody on board.  I mean, at that point, it might be worth investing in, you know, a process that would look more like accommodation; a real, real big shift. 

Rosanne Moore:  Sure, that makes sense.  So, going along the lines of what Espen said about how growth begets growth when you go through that uncomfortable process that takes the place of having what you think you know torn down in order to grow and learn in a new area, going through that makes it easier to go through that again.  What kind of recommendations would you make for leaders who want to create that environment of growth?  How can they be engaging in personal growth so that they’re not simply asking growth of others, but they’re not really engaging well with it themselves?

Andrea:  Right.  So, why is personal growth really that important?  Why is it important for us?  I mean, number one, we want it because we don’t want to be stuck.  We don’t want to be in a position where we’re stuck in our own mindset, we’re stuck in our own situations.  And the problem with continuing on and just continuing to tweak, to tweak, to tweak, to tweak, and not actually making big changes and not going through this process of accommodation over long periods of time is that then it becomes a really big deal when you do have to make a change.

So, I look at my grandparents as an example of this.  So, you see some people who age with… maybe you could say they age with grace, others who age and fight the process all the way.  I would use my grandparents as an example of aging with grace.

So, along the way, they made changes to their living environment.  They made changes to, “Okay, we’re living in a house now.  We’re recognizing that we don’t want to take care of the yard.  It’s gonna be harder and harder for us to get around,” that sort of thing.  “We’re looking into the future.  We’re being honest with ourselves about what it’s gonna be.  Let’s go ahead and make this total change and actually move to a new place where we’re not gonna have to take care of the yard, and we’re not gonna have to do this and that.”  “And you know what, it’s going to be harder and harder…  And as I’m looking forward, it’s going to be harder and harder for us to make decisions about where things are going to go when we’re gone.  Let’s have our children come, and let’s find the things that are most important to our family, and give them all an opportunity to take something that would be a value to them that then we can feel really good about the fact that we have already put this in their care.”  “And then you know what, we’re at the point where we really can’t handle something else.  Before anybody tells us we have to, let’s go ahead and make another shift to an assisted living place.”

So, over the years then, they were used to making these changes in their life, which set them on a more easy path even though it’s not easy.  It’s hard to make those changes, but they weren’t fighting those changes.  They were initiating those changes for themselves.  For us as leaders, we want to lead with grace in a way that, “Well, I can change.  I’m going to continue to change.”  As my grandparents did that, of course, it was helpful to all of their kids and their grandkids.  It was setting an example, number one, but it made it easier on us.  It also made it easier for us to think about ourselves and how we might want to change, how we might want to go through these changes of life.

I think it’s the same thing with any kind of situation where there’s maybe a leader involved.  And if they are constantly growing and changing, it’s going to be a lot easier for everybody else to say, “You know what, this is the way it is here.  This is how we do things here.”  And they understand how hard this can be.  They’ve done it themselves.  So, it’s really important, I think, for us to look at what’s in front of us and say, “Is this how I want to continue to be in the years to come, in this new thing that’s happening right now?  In the middle of this problem right now, do I want to continue to be like I am, or do I want to grow?  And if I want to grow, then there are some things that I can do to get myself ready for that.”

Rosanne Moore:  You know, that’s so good, Andrea, because leadership does give power.  And if a leader indulges their personal preferences under the guise of serving the mission, but they’re not actually changing themselves in ways that they’re asking others to do, then the people following them are going to see that.  And what you were talking about instead is a leader who… we’re back to exercising empathy and respect and a kind of respect that’s going to draw earned respect from those under them, because they’ll see a leader who’s willing to challenge themselves and be willing to change.  I think that’s really good.

So, we talked about that openness to change tends to promote ongoing willingness to change and less rigidity in general.  So, what are things leaders can do to promote a healthy growth environment for themselves and for the people under them?

Andrea:  I would say for the people that they work with, not necessarily under.  We can look at it in terms of a horizontal relationship as well.  If you do have the opportunity to help provide an environment, then it’s important to think about these things.  And I go back to what Espen said about the importance of taking care of our physical needs.  What he said was that accommodation is resource-heavy.  It requires a lot of resources from our bodies just to do it.  So, first of all, taking care of physical needs – being well-nourished, having sleep, taking care of our bodies in a physical way – is going to make a huge difference for our brains and our brains’ ability to make a shift, to make a change.

And now, how can a leader do that for themselves is one thing, but to do it for other people, I’m not sure.  I mean, I think for sure if you have the ability to make sure that you’re paying people what they need to take care of their physical bodies so that maybe they don’t have to work that extra job, or it gives them a chance to buy food that is going to be better for them.  I don’t know, that’s a tough thing to know exactly how you can provide that for others.  But it’s certainly something to consider.

Rosanne Moore:  So, I guess, applying this, say, if there were a conference or workshop, something that the company was doing, something that a leader is promoting, this would be something they’d want to give attention to; making sure that they didn’t go late night, early morning so that sleep was crunched.

Andrea:  Great example.

Rosanne Moore:  Yeah, yeah, making sure that the meals were nutritious.

Andrea:  Right, instead of providing pizza, which… you know, what do we do for our kids all the time?  We’re always giving them candy and pizza and things like this.  That isn’t helping them to grow.  You know, it’s keeping them happy, maybe.  Okay, and then, like you said, at a conference… so putting yourself in a position where if you’re wanting to grow on a regular basis, then yes, taking care of your physical needs, but then also putting yourself in a low-stimulation environment.  You know, it might not be low-stimulation, but it’s low-stimulation in the fact that you don’t have to make all those decisions that you normally make on a day-to-day basis.

So, taking that time away, as Espen talked about, like going on a retreat, but it might also be going to a conference.  It might be kind, you know, taking the executive team on executive retreat off-campus so that your brain is ready to move in a different direction.  And then being open when you do that, putting yourself in a position where you’re open to the change that’s coming.  So, thinking ahead of time, “I wonder what might come of this?”  That kind of a question is an open-ended question that leaves the brain open to answering “Well, what might come of this?  How will happen?  What am I being invited to?”

Rosanne Moore:  You know, one of the things that strikes me as you’re saying that, Andrea, is that at the conference where you and I met, they did a really good job of scheduling periods of rest, of break times.  So, they were presenting new information.  They were presenting small groups in which to process that, but then there was time in the afternoon where you could be alone, and you could sleep or you could journal or whatever.  There was a lot of built-in space to process what you were receiving.  So, anybody who’s thinking about that in terms of a corporate event or a group planning day even, those would be valuable things to consider.

Andrea:  Yeah, you know, content-heavy is not necessarily productive.

Rosanne Moore:  Right.

Andrea:  So, I would say that the third piece of this… so the taking care of physical needs, and then being open – putting yourself in an environment where you’re open and ready to change – and then number three, embedding time for reflection afterwards.  So, it could be in the midst of it, like you just described that conference, but it could also be, you know, “On the flight home, I’m gonna make sure that I have my journal with me, and I’m gonna really reflect on what happened.  And what do I really want to take back with me?”  Or maybe it’s a conversation with somebody a week later over Zoom and… find somebody at that conference or wherever you might be and make that decision to meet a week later and ask those questions of yourself.  So what has kind of stuck with you after you’ve gone back?  What are the things that you’re really starting to implement?  What do you want to implement in the future?  Those kinds of questions.  You know, you could do this at a conference, but this could also be something that you do on a micro-level personally.

So, every time I watch a new movie, particularly a Disney movie… I’m not going to lie, those tend to be the ones.  Not just those, but you know… if it’s a kids’ movie that I don’t care about or whatever, I might not do this.  But when I’m watching a movie, I’m asking that question, I’m opening myself to the story and I’m asking the question, “What might I gain from this?  What might I be invited to through this?  What is it touching inside of me, and what might I want to change because of it?”  And as you know, I’ve been affected by movies in big ways, which is why I wrote the book Unfrozen.  But I think that that, even in a micro-sense, has allowed me to kind of continue to put myself in a position of being willing to move and grow and, you know, accommodate paradigm shifts.

Rosanne Moore:  Sure.  So, how can a leader evaluate when resistance…  Let’s say they’ve tried to do these things, but they’re running into resistance.  And we recognize that anytime there’s a big paradigm shift, people are uncomfortable.  There’s going to be some resistance.  How can they evaluate when the resistance to a new idea or initiative is simply because change stretches people in ways that are uncomfortable?  And when is it an indicator that there’s a deeper issue that needs to be addressed?

Andrea:  So, I would go back to being curious.   Well, you go back to what we talked about in our episode a couple of conversations ago where we talked about, number one, being self-aware and knowing, “What is going on inside of me? What is motivating me?”  And then number two, looking at the other person and saying, “What might be going on inside of them,” and then being able to address it.  So, I think in terms of, you know, evaluating resistance, if you’re seeing that people are not feeling free to share their ideas or they are arguing a lot, then I would look for what could be making them uncomfortable.

And look again back to what I said a couple of episodes ago about sad being under angry.  What might they be really struggling with right now?  And even ask the question… like you had said.  You had been to the doctor and had a previous bad experience, but you were trying to understand what their process was going to be.  And thankfully, a doctor finally asked you, “Well, have you had a bad experience?”  And then he gave you a chance to share that, which then allowed him to connect with your pain and empathize with that and say, “I can understand why you would be so concerned about this.  Let me take you through the process and why that is going to not be the case this time,” and setting you at ease.

And so, I think, most of the time, people aren’t just resisting to resist.  Most of the time, there’s a reason why people feel the way they do.  They’re not just trying to be upset with you to make your life miserable.  There’s a reason.  So, stay curious and see if you can find out why; be a detective.

Rosanne Moore:  That’s so good, Andrea.  Thank you.  So, if you want to become a more effective leader and more effective in the conversations that you’re having with those – especially where changes needed, whether it’s an evaluation at work or leading the team and a paradigm shift like we were talking about today, or even on a personal level, maybe within your family, getting your kids to do their chores better – we have a free mini-course available for you.  Go to voiceofinfluence.net/podcast for more information on the Deep Impact Method.  This will really help you in terms of having conversations that are more productive and do a better job of connecting you with other people and gaining the right to be heard.  It will really be a benefit to you, and that’s free.

Also, if you want to work one on one with Andrea, but you’re not sure what that would look like, we recommend starting with a “Clarify Your Voice Call.”  Go to voiceofinfluence.net and hit the contact button there and ask to learn more about clarifying your voice.  Thanks so much for being with us today.

Andrea:  All right.  Thank you so much, Rosanne.  I appreciate it.