#137 Persuasion, Influence, and Negotiation for Leaders with Nashater Deu Solheim

//  Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim is the author of the new book, The Leadership PIN Code.

As a former forensic psychologist with clinical research in the neuropsychology of criminal minds, she developed a deep interest in effective learning strategies for lasting success. Now, as an expert negotiator who studied at the Program On Negotiations at Harvard Law School, Dr. Solheim has combined her experience as an executive leader in international private companies and government ministries to present The Leadership PIN Code – the definitive guide for helping business leaders secure influence and impactful results.

In this conversation, you’ll hear more about Dr. Solheim’s interesting experience as a clinical psychologist working with incarcerated offenders and then later with people who were exhibiting PTSD symptoms in warzones, the outline and explanation of her framework for The Leadership PIN Code, what it’s like to lead through this difficult time, and how you can use and understand the typical response to sudden change framework to help you understand your own personal response as well as the people who are on your team.

Take a listen to the episode!

Mentioned in this episode:

• Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim’s Website
• Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim’s Book | The Leadership PIN Code: Unlocking the Key to Willing and Winning Relationships
• Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim on LinkedIn
• Progressive Minds Website

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Transcript

People of influence know that their voice matters and that they can make it matter more.  I’m Andrea Wenburg, and this is the Voice of Influence podcast.

Today, I have somebody special in the podcast.  Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim is the author of the new book The Leadership PIN Code.  And I am excited to have her on here because she is quite fascinating.  I’m going to read to you part of her bio.

As a former forensic psychologist with clinical research in the neuropsychology of criminal minds, she developed a deep interest in effective learning strategies for lasting success.  Now, as an expert negotiator who studied at the Program On Negotiations at Harvard Law School, Dr. Solheim has combined her experience as an executive leader in international private companies and government ministries to present The Leadership PIN Code– the definitive guide for helping business leaders secure influence and impactful results.

So, we had a lot to talk about.  In this conversation, you’re going to hear more about her really interesting experience as a clinical psychologist working with incarcerated offenders and then later with people who were exhibiting PTSD symptoms in warzones. She is going to outline and explain her proprietor framework for The Leadership PIN Code.  And we’re also going to talk about what it’s like to lead through this difficult time, particularly the one that we’re in right now – and how you can use and understand the typical response to sudden change framework to help you understand your own personal response as well as the people who are on your team.

You can find links to all the resources mentioned on this episode at voiceofinfluence.net.

Here’s my conversation with Dr. Solheim:

Andrea:  Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim, it is great to have you here on the Voice of Influence podcast.

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  It is great to be with you, Andrea.  Thanks for inviting me.

Andrea:  So, would you start please by telling us a little bit about your background and how you came to write your book, The Leadership PIN Code.

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  So, I have a background in being trained as a psychologist – and actually a clinical psychologist way back – and what that really is about is treating people with mental health problems, but I decided to specialize in working with offenders.  So, I was a clinical forensic psychologist, as it’s known – meaning that I worked with offenders who were in maximum security environments with mental health problems.  So, they had committed very serious crimes, and they were dangerous, and they also had mental health problems where those problems may have either been a trigger for the offenses that they committed or a consequence of the offenses they had committed.

And my interest in psychology really took me to working with quite extreme groups of people, I guess, if you think about that. But I learnt a lot in my training as a clinical forensic psychologist on how you build relationships with people, how you build trust, and get rapport.  And how you use varying parts of your communication – whether that’s what you say and do in terms of the questions that you ask and the responses you get, but also the body language that you use in terms of your building a rapport and a relationship with somebody else.

So, I was trained in different questioning techniques, in different ways of interviewing, and the purpose of those was always to try and build a relationship with somebody who, for very good reason is locked up; probably for a very long time may not be very open to sharing information with you or very trusting of you.

And what I found was that the skills that I was trained in really helped us to engage people for that win-win.  The win for myself as a psychologist was I needed to understand why these individuals had committed the offenses that they had so that we could assess the risk of them going on to commit further crimes, or so that we could understand the background factors that may have contributed to them choosing that pathway.  And the more that we learned about that, the more that maybe we could prevent other people from choosing those pathways if exposed to the same kinds of background factors.

Andrea:  That is fascinating.  Keep going.

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  So, that was the first reason.  The win for me as a psychologist was really that I wanted to be able to understand those risks and to be able to mitigate those risks going forward.  And for the patient, as we call them – because they were offenders with mental health problems in a hospital setting – we really were inviting them to take responsibility for what they had done, and use the relationship and expertise that we had together to be able to understand their own offenses and perhaps for themselves choose a different pathway going forward and helping, if at all possible, them integrate into a healthier lifestyle.

Of course, with this type of population, they were extremely dangerous and also had committed offenses, probably over a very long time.  So, this was long-term work.  It took quite a lot of us of our skills and competence – to build those relationships to a point where they would share that information, and we were able to move them on into a better lifestyle going forward.  And where that really connects with what I do today is as I worked as a psychologist in those settings, I then went on to work with the Ministry of Defense where I worked with military personnel returning from either peacekeeping engagements or war zones, treating post-traumatic stress disorder, primarily as a clinical psychologist.

But also, again, building relationships with people who’ve had very extreme experiences, trying to build trusting relationships where they would feel comfortable sharing, sometimes, very painful experiences that they had gone through so that we could help them to reintegrate into a normal lifestyle.  And those skills – again, very different context – but the same skills, really, in how do you build rapport, how do you use questions and responses to build trust and invite people to open up and share so that there is a mutual gain; that you get the information you need to help them, and they are then helped to move into a healthier lifestyle going forward.

As I moved into working with leaders in business, really, the context was very different, but the challenges were often the same.  They were dealing with people who were resistant to change, sometimes handling conflict, sometimes handling difficult conversations, motivating people who may be reluctant to face changes, or perhaps were even resistant to the ideas that leaders were putting forward.  And they were struggling to persuade them to follow them in the direction that the business needed to go.  And so, really, the common thread throughout my experiences was that my skills as a psychologist – whether that was clinical or forensic – and actually, Andrea, I did also work with neuropsychology, which is understanding how the brain works in terms of the processes it takes for it to function.  So, I’m thinking of things like memory and learning.

I worked with people with head injuries and learnt a lot about how people learn effective strategies and how they can recover from those kinds of either illnesses or injuries.  And all of that integrated learning really came to its fore in business when I work with leaders and help them to apply similar strategies for asking the right questions, giving the right responses using their body language, understanding how people learn, and most importantly, understanding that everybody is different – they have their own way of learning, their own preferred way of receiving information, and their own interests or motivation.

And it’s really your role as a leader – as it was mine as a psychologist – to find that individual hook, if you like, in each person when you work with them, to try and get the best out of the relationship that you both have together.  Whether that’s leader to employee, it might be leader to leader, it might lead to stakeholder, and very much the case leader to client or customer.

So, how I came to writing The Leadership PIN Codewas really an integration of all of those experiences and skills, and putting them into a very simple formula, which I felt was easy and practical and a way of helping leaders use the skills that I’ve trained in myself, but to be able to apply them in everyday practice for themselves.  They’re not all rocket science and not at all something that’s academic or complicated, but stripping it back to a very simple framework that I thought they could apply.  And the feedback I get is that it is very practical and very easy to use in all kinds of simple situations and more complex situations.

Andrea:  I have a lot of questions for you based on everything that you just said, besides the things that I already prepared.  But first, I want to ask, what of The Leadership PIN Codecan you share with the audience right now?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  So, the framework is so simple, I can share that in its entirety.  The PIN Code refers to, persuasion, influenceand negotiation; so it’s an acronym.  And it’s the skills, I think, that are really critical for leaders to be able to have in order to have the impact they want to have.  So, you may well have heard people say, you know, “I intended this, but the effect of what I did was something else and I feel misunderstood, or I feel confused.  How is it that I was trying to be supportive and helpful, but I actually ended up coming across or being experienced as micromanaging or controlling, and that wasn’t my intention?”

And, so, the more I worked with leaders and realized they struggled with this gap between what they were trying to communicate and actually what was happening or being experienced, that they were missing the how – how to get my message across or how to get my intention across?  And the skills in that gap for me are persuasion, influence, and negotiation.  So how can I persuade people to follow the direction I feel is right for the business or the team right now?  How can I influence the way in which we’re working so that we all get more out of it, we’re more effective?

And we’re negotiating all the time at work, especially as leaders.  Whether we’re negotiating for resources, for support, or negotiating for more investment or financial support from our seniors – that those skills, those persuasion, influence, negotiation skills are very much part of everyday leadership.  Yet if you go to the literature, there’s a ton of literatures available on each one of those.  And it can be very overwhelming for leaders to work out, “Well, how am I going to apply that wealth of knowledge in the moment, in a conversation I’m having with my employee who’s maybe pushing back on something I need them to do?”

So, I looked at those skills, and I crystallized what I thought was very important and also easy to achieve.  And it was what I call the ABC framework.  And the A stands for Advanced Preparation or Approach.  And what I mean by that is what do you need to know before you walk into this conversation, before you have this meeting with the other person?  What do you need to know about them, about what motivates them, what interests them, perhaps what triggers them or irritates them?  Certainly, what is on their mind at the moment?  What are their priorities?

So, that whatever your “ask”, you are able to hang out on their priorities or their needs or their interests.  That way, you create the win-win, because if what you need also meet something that they need, you’re more likely to get their engagement.  So, you really do need to do your homework on who is this person and what’s motivating them right now.

And the second part, the B of the ABC is Behavior– and there are two parts of that.  There is your Body Language, which is very much how do you show up your intention in your body language.  Are you relaxed, open?  Are you showing stress on your face or in your body?  How do you use your body to communicate the intention clearly that you’re trying to have?  And sometimes we see that leaders do things without realizing; they may follow their brows or frown while they’re talking.  They may certainly have folded arms or cross legs, or they may have body language that suggests they’re not really that interested – by avoiding eye contact when they’re speaking, for example.  So, your body language is very important in communicating your intention.

And the second part of Behavior is what I call the Behavior of the Room.  So, where do you put the chairs in the room? And that’s really powerful in terms of how you can communicate either a collaborative dialogue or a more confrontational dialogue.  So, imagine being seated across the table from somebody with a big boardroom table between the two of you, and your eye contact, therefore, is very direct and across a barrier between the two of you.  That’s going to feel very formal, and that may perhaps create a more tensed environment around the conversation you’re going to have.

Whereas, putting your chairs in a V or at a 90 degree angle with a small round coffee table between you – if you need one at all – certainly will give you much more natural eye contact, a feeling that we’re in this task together because the V between us is a more collaborative space.  And something as simple as thinking about whether you should be standing and presenting when you talk versus, you know, “Can I do this without a PowerPoint presentation?”  “Should I have the chairs arranged so that we can all see each other, or should I have people sat in rows?”  There are lots of tips, really, that in your physical environment will add to or take away from a collaborative conversation.

And the third part, which is the C, that’s the Conversation.  And that’s what am I going to say.  Do I start the conversation?  Do I let the other person start the conversation?  And what questions can I ask that will open up and give me more information, or help the other person to feel relaxed and want to provide information that we both need versus questions I might ask that might make them feel defensive or close down. And certainly, there are responses I can give that will make people feel understood or heard versus responses I might give that will make people feel that I’m being critical or judgmental.

So, the ABC is the framework.  It’s as simple as that.  It’s your Approach or Advanced Preparation, it’s your Behavior, and it is your Conversation.  And, essentially, the book is all the tips I’ve trained in as a psychologist.  Well, not all of them – I wouldn’t get them all in one book – but a lot of the tips in each of those, you know, how I would prepare for a conversation, the kind of body language and room setup I would recommend to get the best out of an influential, collaborative dialogue, and the kinds of questions and responses that really help people to feel they’re on the same page.

Andrea:  Those are some really great tips.  And I’m sure that you go into, you know, so much more detail in your book.  So, I would encourage the listener to go purchase the book and try it out.  As you were kind of building up all of your experience and knowledge about how to build rapport and trust and these relationships that will allow you to really invite people to share what I would call their voice, what was one of the things that you did in that work with offenders – let’s start there – really started to build that relationship and how long did that take?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  It’s a really important point of starting where they are – getting out of your own head, as I call it – and really trying to understand where the other person is when you start this conversation.  And certainly, if you’re new to each other, trust is what you’re trying to establish from the start.  And that doesn’t come quickly or easily in these cases when you’re dealing with people who are locked up.  You have power and mandate, you’re the one wearing the keys to the door, literally, that allows you to go in and out with freedom, and they are behind bars or locked away.  So, trust is already an issue between the two of you.

And, so, it was paramount that we started really with where they are and open questions, you know.  So, let me explain first what I’m here for, but open questions about what are your expectations?  You know, what are you concerned about?  What are you worried about in terms of opening up here?  And trying to understand their story, really listening, active listening; so listening without speaking, and then summarizing and feeding back what you’ve heard to make sure that you’ve heard it correctly.  Those are really the keys of empathic listening.  And that would start to build trust because they would feel that you really are, and you were genuinely interested in the story.

And it wasn’t something that you were faking or you know, trying to give a good impression of, because in order to do the work that we did – which is, you know, really understand why these individuals committed the offenses they did and how can we possibly either mitigate it from occurring and/or help them to move on to a better life – you were genuinely interested in, “How did this happen for you?”  And these stories were always interesting because they were never, you know, ordinary stories.  They weren’t stories of people having grown up with every possibility and opportunity in their lives, but nevertheless choosing this track.  They came with often very disturbing, traumatic histories or neglectful backgrounds.

And, you know, maybe it was just me, but I’ve always been curious and fascinated by people’s backstory as to how that gets them to where they are now.  And that curiosity would automatically lead to very open questions and empathic listening.  And you would do that over a period of time, so that they felt that you were genuinely interested in their story and also genuinely helping them.  So that’s also important now when I’m working with leaders, that you show that you are genuinely concerned about what it is they want to improve or work on or focus on or need help with.  So that the story around why you’re engaging with them is about them, it’s not about what you can do, but more about what they will get from this encounter with you.

Andrea:  I think that’s important, that they feel like there is something in it for them; for sure, that they’re not that part of your agenda, but that you are genuinely interested like you said.  When you work with leaders, when you’re thinking about this in terms of leadership and conversations…  I’m wondering when someone doesn’t have that genuine interest to start out with, is there a path forward that for that leader to be able to develop genuine interest?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  I guess, I’m wondering is the question if they’re not genuinely interested how can they show that they are or how can they become genuinely interested?

Andrea: It sounds to me like they need to be genuinely interested.

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  Right.

Andrea:  So, rather than… you know, having an ethical approach to all of this is super important and being authentic.  If someone says to themselves, “You know what, I really want this behavior to change, but I’m not in a place where I’m genuinely interested about why this person is doing what they’re doing.”  First of all, why is it important for them to develop that genuine interest, and then how do they do that?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  Great. So then I can see where the question is coming from.  So, what I say to leaders, and that’s a very common issue for them, which is, you know, “I’m busy.”  “I’m not sure I’ve got time.”  “Do I have to spend that much time?”  You know, I certainly had a couple of leaders saying to me, “Look, I am the leader, and I’ve asked them to do that.  Do I have to worry about motivating them, or kind of finding what’s going to motivate them to do it, or do their best?  Should they just be doing that anyway?  You know, it is their job, and I am the leader.”

And sure, you can use your mandate and power, and instruct people to do what you want them to do.  And they may well do it, certainly if they feel that they have no choice.  But that doesn’t really create the willing engagement that we’re looking for when we’re working with our employees or our stakeholders where we want people to be inspired and motivated to both work with us, and give the extra mile, and to continue that relationship after this particular activity or event.

So, what I have leaders really focus on is, what is it that you want in terms of impact or influence with this employee?  And if that’s what you want, you’re going to have to put some work in.  So, even if you weren’t interested or curious about this person before – in order for you to have that collaborative, effective relationship – it’s a good idea for you to open up and be curious about who this person is and what might motivate them, and just notice how different your working relationship will be as a result of you showing that curiosity.  So, I invite them to open up because it serves their interest to have more influence and impact.  But of course, it also – here’s the win-win – will serve the interests of the employee or stakeholder they’re working with because they will feel more visible and valued and engaged.

Andrea:  Hear, hear! I completely agree.  I think the agency that the other person feels – whether or not they believe that they matter in this conversation, whether or not they believe that they matter to you in this conversation – certainly seems to have a huge impact on how much they’re able to let down their guard and have that conversation with you to get to that point where you’re trying to actually make a behavioral change.

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim: So, I mean, if I put it really simply, I would say, just think about how much you would do for somebody you really trust.  You know, if they asked you a favor, if they asked for your help or support, and you really trust them, and they trust you…  And right now in these times, we’re doing it; we’re going over and above and beyond to help people, and particularly the people that we love and trust we will do that without question.  And then think about what happens if you don’t trust somebody or you actively mistrust somebody, you know, how much will you do for them then?

So, trust really becomes the foundation upon which we give so much more of ourselves, we build so much cooperative and collegiate behavior that that’s really the starting point I speak to leaders about all the time, which is know your employees and knowing them means learning them.  And the more you learn, the more you will build trust with each other because we don’t trust people unless we know them and we certainly won’t go over and above what is expected of us if we actively mistrust them.

So, build trust, and build trust by learning them and knowing them – what motivates them and what interests them – and then try and create the win-win in the conversations, particularly when they’re challenging conversations.  You know, whether it’s about getting them to change tact or activity or strategy, or whether it’s a big change, like we are now having people changing priorities on their tasks, maybe even changing jobs and roles or giving up aspects of their jobs and roles.  Then how can we do that in a way that makes people feel involved and valued?  Well, that’s by treating them with respect, and respect comes from a place of trusting each other.

Andrea:  Okay, so how does that trust play into the negotiation piece of your PIN reference; persuasion, influence, negotiation?  Where does trust play into that negotiation?  What is negotiation when it comes to something like this?  When I think of negotiation, a lot of times the thing that comes to mind is two people on the opposite sides of a table who are kind of fighting for their own sides.  But I’m guessing that’s not your approach.  Can you tell us a little bit about it?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  So, we often think about negotiation and you’re spot on, Andrea.  I think we often think about negotiation as, “In order for me to win, you have to lose,” or “In order for me to get something, you’re going to have to give something up.”  It’s actually in some ways, I think, a misunderstanding of what negotiation really is where negotiation is about creating a win for both sides; so if I win, you win.  So, “How can I get what I need, and you also get what you need?”  That’s really at the heart of negotiation as opposed to, I think, what we perhaps misunderstood, which is it’s a one-sided win.

So, win-win means that we both have to come away with a feel-good factor; that we got what we needed and neither of us got it at the cost of the other person.  So, where does trust come into that?  Great question.  Trust is really that if I know you very well, and therefore I trust you, and I understand what your needs and interests are then when I’m negotiating with you, I can appeal to those.

So, let me give an example of the win-win in action when we have a leader and an employee who know each other very well, and so much so that there’s good trust built there.  And the leader needs the employee to take on another task on top of perhaps a very heavy workload already.  But the leader knows that this particular employee is capable of that task and perhaps is the best person to do it because of their skills, but worried or perhaps wondering whether this employee will either say, “No, I can’t,” or get upset or angry about being asked to take on something else.  And what this leader knows about the employee is that they’re also very competent, and keen to show their competence and to be recognized and rewarded for the kinds of achievements that they fulfill.

So, in going to this employee with yet another task, what a skilled negotiating leader would do would be to appeal to that interest to be seen and recognized and valued for their competency.  So might say, you know, “Jane, I see that you’ve got a lot on, and I really value the work that you’re doing, and you’re doing such a great job.  And I have this task that is so important to the company right now, and I think you’re the right person to do it.  It is a wonderful opportunity for you to showcase the skills that you have that you’ve been working so hard on these other projects, and I think it’s time that other people are able to see it.  I think this is a great opportunity for you to do it, and I know it’s coming on top of a lot of other things; but this particular task, I think, will be great for you to showcase those competencies.”

So, you’re appealing to something in the employee that would make them see them value.  Now, it has to be a genuine appeal.  If that leader had gone to Jane and said, “Jane, I think this is great; you’ll get to shine.”  Or “Jane, I think this is great; you know, you’ll feel good after having done it,” without really understanding if that was her interest, then it will slide off Jane.  It’ll be like, “You know what, no.  No, it’s not gonna make me feel that way, but thanks for asking.”  But if it genuinely meets because this leader does know Jane so well that he knows it will trigger in terms of her interest or motivation then it’s going to land in the right way.

The alternative would be that he would just go in and say, “You know what, here’s a task that needs to be done; can you get it fixed?  I know you’re under pressure, but we don’t have a choice.  It’s a priority for me.  Let me know when you’re going to have it done.” Now, the outcome will be the same; Jane will probably do it.  The difference is will Jane feel that there was a genuine concern for her interest and motivation in offering her the task?  Even if she thinks, “Yeah, he’s appealing to that because he knows I want it,” at least she will feel that he knew her well enough to know her interest and motivation.

Andrea:  Yes.

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:   And so that is also part of, “You know, I respect the fact that you know me well enough to know that’s important.  Okay, it is on top of everything else, but thank you for, you know, acknowledging me and seeing me and valuing me.”

Andrea:  Okay, so you also did this work with PTSD.  And something that is a big concern for me as I look forward into the next few months, maybe the next year or so is the amount of trauma and grief that people around the world are experiencing in ways that is kind of heightened, I guess, to normal times.  With your experience with trauma and grief, do you have any specific tips that would be helpful to leaders who either are experiencing it themselves or also, you know, how they can help their people move forward with that?  And I understand that that’s a huge conversation in and of itself, but what would you say to those leaders who are wanting to help with trauma and grief?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  So, firstly, I would probably just have them think about… well, they’re not in a position, I guess, to distinguish whether this is something that needs professional help; you know, if it is a clinical diagnosis of trauma versus somebody who’s showing signs of stress or worry.  So, I would perhaps first start with let’s start with… leaders are working right now with people who are worried, and they are anxious about the uncertainty that they face, about the fear of, you know, becoming ill or their loved ones becoming ill and certainly around losing the security of home or job.

So, with those worries and anxieties, what leaders themselves need to be aware of is their own reaction, first and foremost.  And there’s a lot of research around and models around, and the one that I really like – which actually does come from clinical psychology originally – is this idea that when we’re facing a sudden change in our lives – doesn’t have to be a traumatic event, but it could be – but certainly a sudden change in our lives whether it work or at home, we typically go through stages of reaction to that.  And it’s usually starts with shock, you know, especially if it’s an unwanted change that has come suddenly out of the blue.

And, so, I will have leaders understand these stages of, you know, the initial shock and then anger, you know, “Why is this happening, and why is it happening to me?  I didn’t ask for it, but I’m having to respond to it anyway; and I’m going to try and resist it.  I’m going to keep things as normal as possible, and I’m certainly not going to go along with this change because I’m furious that it’s happening.”

And then moving to the third stage which is the sadness, really, and the acknowledgement that the change has come. It might mean letting go of some things, it might mean some other things coming into my life, but certainly, I need to acknowledge the sadness and the loss that’s coming with this change.  And then moving into the fourth stage which is really accepting that this change has happened, and I need to experiment with adapting my environment, my attitude, my feelings to the new way of being.

So, in this current climate, from the shock of the virus coming out of the blue to, you know, anger that it’s made me perhaps lose my job, or have to change the way I work, or have to work from home and give up a lot of freedom to the sadness that it means I’m losing connections with people.  Maybe there’s loss of income, or it may even be loss of life if you’re related to people who are suffering with the illness.

And then to acceptance, which is, “Okay, now I have to adapt to this new scenario.”  And it might mean starting to, for example, very concretely have meetings through social media or virtual meetings with my colleagues because I can no longer physically meet with them; adapting my routine during the day so that I have a better balance between working at home and my private life.  And adapting to not listening to the news all the time, which worries me further, but creating some opportunities for having positive experiences and positive news coming into my world.

So, I will work with leaders on using this model as a way of understanding their own reaction, but then looking towards their people and saying, “Maybe if I understand where they are in this process of reacting to the change, it will help me to understand them better.”  So, if somebody is very angry and resistant, maybe they haven’t moved past that stage of accepting the shock.  I will have leaders use those stages and assess where they are at.  You know, are they moved past shock?  Are they still angry about the change?  Are they grieving the loss of some of those freedoms and privileges that they had?  Have they moved towards acceptance and then starting to adapt their environment?

But then use that also as a way of understanding where their employees are at and being able to engage in a conversation with their employees around the stage they think they may be in.  So, if you have an employee who’s still resisting change, very upset and very angry, you will know they haven’t come to accept the changes that everybody else is trying to work to accept.

So, you can have that conversation with them and say, “How are you?  You know, I see that you’re upset.  Tell me more about that?”  “What can I do to help you?”  “So, these are some of the things we’re trying to adapt to our environment; have you tried them?”  “What’s getting in the way?” Or, “You know, what can I do to help you try out some of these things that I think will be helpful?”  Because in the whole of that question that you pose, really, about how can leaders help, the core of what makes people worry and stress at the moment is a feeling of loss of control.  Something has happened that we had no control over, and now, if we stay with that feeling of loss of control, it’s very worrying and anxiety provoking.  It’s human nature to want to try and get back some control where we can.

And, so, I encourage leaders then in this acceptance phase and adaptive, experimental phase that, “Well, what can we do that we can control?”  “Okay, well, we can set up new routines.  We can have our meetings in other ways.”  “We can make sure we check in on each other not just about work tasks but also about our personal lives.”  Checking in, you know, “How are the family?”  “How are you today?”  “What have you got planned at the weekend?”  And not just about, you know, “How are you getting on with that project, and are you meeting the milestones and the deadlines?”

So, remembering that those encounters we had at work, which I call casual collisions… you know, bumping into people and having the cordial chat about what happened at the weekend, or a quick coffee with someone and asking them how they are because you see that they look a little stressed or, you know, they look like they’ve maybe had some bad news. Those meetings, those casual encounters are missing now that we’re isolated in our home environments from our colleagues.  So, creating those little conversations through virtual coffee chats, picking up the phone, having a quick conversation with someone, just checking in for the sake of checking in is a really helpful way of helping people to compartmentalize the worry that they have and feel still connected to each other at the same time.

So, what we’re seeing at the moment with the COVID-19 virus is people responding quite normally to a very abnormal situation, and that’s really what this has in common with trauma.  When people are traumatized, it’s because they’re having a natural reaction, a normal reaction to an abnormal event.  And what we can learn from working with trauma in those cases – and now with COVID-19 – is that there are stages that people go through when they are faced with an unwanted and sudden change in their lives, such as we’re experiencing now.

Andrea:  Okay, so thank you for that.  If you could give a piece of advice to someone who wants to have a Voice of Influence, what would that last piece of advice be to them?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  The key to it – if I could crystallize it to one thing that you can do that would make an immediate difference – is find out what motivates and interests the other person. If you start there, then whatever it is that you’re trying to achieve, whatever your agenda is; if you can find a way of having it connect to the other person’s interest or motivation in helping you or assisting you in whatever it is you want to have influence with, then you are much more likely to be successful than if you start with what’s in it for you and staying in your own head with your own agenda.

Andrea:  All right. And where can people find your book and connect with you?

Dr. Nashater Deu Solheim:  So, my book is available on a lot of online bookstores.  And I guess the one I’d point out is Amazon is probably a good place to start.  You can certainly contact me through our website, which is www.progressingminds.com, or you can search my name Nashater Due Solheim and you’ll find my book website there. You can certainly look me up on LinkedIn – I’m very active on LinkedIn.  It’s where I do a lot of sharing of content of my book and articles and podcasts.  So, if you key my name into LinkedIn, that’s probably a great way to get hold of me, and I usually ping people straight back.  So, feel free to reach out and send me a message there.

Andrea:  And you know what, we’ll be sure to link those places into the website so people can find all of that at voiceofinfluence.net on this podcast episode show notes.  Thank you so much for being a Voice of Influence for our listeners today.

Dr. NashaterDeu Solheim:  Oh, it’s lovely to have been talking to you, Andrea.  Thank you so much for inviting me.